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Oral Histories
Radiologist Hymer L. Friedell, M.D., Ph.D.
Foreword
Short Biography
Early Training and Research
Pre-War Radiation Therapy
Pre-War Experience at the University of California
Amount of Information Provided to Patients
Prominent Researchers Working at Berkeley
The Army Medical Corps and the Manhattan Project
Work at the Chicago Metallurgical Laboratory
Inspection of Manhattan Project Facilities and Proposed Sites
Search for Data on Human Exposure to Radiation
Purchase of a Cyclotron; the Manhattan Engineer District's Early Biomedical Program
Plutonium Injection Studies
Patient Consent in the Plutonium Injections
Advisory Role in the Early AEC Biomedical Program
AEC Isotope Distribution Committee
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Work at the Chicago Metallurgical Laboratory |
| FRIEDELL: |
I'm not sure I was interested in joining. I was just interested in making
sure that I was discharging my obligation. I don't know that I looked upon it
with great enthusiasm. But at the same time, I felt it was a responsibility of
mine. They agreed, and then I received rather odd orders.
I received
orders to appear at the Presidio for induction, which I did. Then I was given
special orders to go to Chicago and respond to a Captain Craftan. I was to
appear in civilian clothes at the MET Lab.63 The address, I believe,
was 5125 University Avenue in Chicago; I believe that's the address, if I
remember correctly. Anyway, that was the MET Lab, and there I was received by
Dr. Craftan, who immediately instructed me to go to New York and see a Colonel
Marshall and a Major Blair, who would instruct me further. That simply explains
to you how I got into this.
In August of 1942, I left the University of Chicago, and was a
participant in what was then the Plutonium Project. Although we never really
used that term. First of all, we [never] used the word plutonium. We used to
talk about plutonium as "product"; and "uranium," I think,
was called "tuballoy."
I then discovered that Dr. Stone had been going there at periodic
intervals, and the decision was made, apparently, to transfer him to Chicago, as
well—I guess a little before I got there. I think Dr. Stone felt that I
would then be on his staff, as I did. Well, we began then to pursue
certain activities; primarily with regard to [medical] surveillance of
individuals to make sure that we knew something about their physical condition.
I examined a lot of people. One in particular was Edward Teller,64
whom I got to know very well. I don't know whether you want this on the record
or not, but Edward Teller—first of all, I discovered, had one leg. He lost
his leg, and taking the history—I recorded it somewhere—taking the
history, he lost his leg in apparently a streetcar accident in Berlin. At least,
that is as I remember the history. He has a prosthesis, and he had lost part of
the leg below the knee. I think it's the right leg, but I'm not sure now. He
also had a hernia, a very large hernia, and I think to this day he might think I
was a great diagnostician. But anybody could identify it. He had it correct[ed]
at the [University of Chicago's] Billings hospital. |
| MELAMED: |
So you were doing [medical] surveillance of some of the scientists? |
| FRIEDELL: |
We were doing surveillance of the various people. I remember once examining
Herbert Anderson, who was the assistant, that is well-known, to [MET Lab
director Enrico] Fermi. He didn't see what the hell I was doing there anyway. I
was just cluttering up the place, and doing all these nonsensical sort of
things. But we were doing surveillance, doing basic studies, making some
estimates of how we would measure the radiation; then beginning to look at some
of the agencies that were involved in radium and uranium.
I was assigned to go out and see a lot of these; partly because it was
easier for me to do this as an officer. I could easily get orders to do this,
whereas there were civilian personnel there, and they could have done it as well
as I. But they probably thought I should do it. Besides, I had a little more
experience with radioactive materials. As a matter of fact, I had had more
experience than most, having come from, in effect, the citadel of radioelements
[(the UC Radiation Laboratory)];65 I knew quite a lot about it. In
some ways I was more familiar with some of it than Dr. Stone was, because he was
involved, really, in the broad administration of the department and wasn't doing
direct research himself. But the Army—I should say this first: I believe
that a lot of this was still under the Office of Scientific Research and
Development.66 It may have been in the OSRD still. But the Army was
beginning to take over.
I discovered that there were grand plans when I went to New York, and
was met by Colonel Marshall (no relation to the General Marshall). It was
Colonel William Marshall, and a Major Robert Blair, I remember them very well,
and some other officers.
I then discovered why it was called the
Manhattan District—I'm sorry, it was never called the Manhattan Project—but
it was called the Manhattan Engineer District of the Corps of Engineers. I think
it was basically because a major office was in New York at that time. If I
remember correct, their offices were on 29th and 5th [Streets]. I would go there
not infrequently. So I began to learn that the program was going on. Before
long, it became clear that they were going to go ahead and develop a program on
their own. |
| MELAMED: |
Are you talking about a medical program, then? |
| FRIEDELL: |
A biomedical program of their own. Because they felt they had
responsibility for the general surveillance in one way or another. It is my
conjecture—and I want to make it clear that it's my conjecture—I
believe that they wanted someone with considerable stature who had had
experience with this to head the program. I believe they asked Dr. Stone to do
it. I'm not sure that is the case, but I believe it to be so. I think that he
was importuned not to do it and to remain with what was then the Plutonium
Project.
The Army then decided, then conferred with me a little bit, because they
thought I could make some suggestions. I really had no real suggestions to make.
If I remember, I thought there were various superior individuals in radiology,
that they might contact. I believe I may have even mentioned Dr. [Stafford]
Warren67 in Rochester. But the only reason I would have done it—I
didn't know him at all—it was only because he was a recognized leader in
the general field of radiology. I felt that I was too young to take on this
august responsibility, and I didn't know where it would lead to.
This
created some minor problems for me, because here Dr. Stone had refused to accept
this, if he indeed did. Now they were intent upon identifying someone, and about
late December, or something on that order, they asked Dr. Warren to come on as a
civilian consultant. That's when I first met Dr. Warren. Here I was, pursuing my
activities as part of the Manhattan Engineer District, but Dr. Warren was my
immediate consultant, and I knew that eventually he would become the director.
They decided then that he should become—have a commission in the Army. And
later arranged—there are some interesting anecdotes with this. But in any
event, he became the director sometime in March of 1943. |
| FISHER: |
Had you already moved? Where were you living at this time? |
| FRIEDELL: |
At this time, I had already moved. As soon as I was detached—that is,
as soon as I had been ordered to Chicago—I arranged to have my family go
back to Minneapolis. And then, I tried to find a place for us to live in
Chicago. Now recall, I had already lived in Chicago when I was at the Tumor
Institute, so I knew something about the arrangements. Actually, I had lived in
the vicinity of the university. I lived somewhere off University Avenue. When I
was transferred there, I finally found a place. I believe I lived in Cornell
Towers in Chicago. I moved my family there. At that time, my family consisted of
my wife and a daughter about four or five years of age. |
| FISHER: |
Then you moved to Oak Ridge,68 when? |
| FRIEDELL: |
I moved to Oak Ridge—it must have been in the middle of '43 or
something of that order. We'd lived in Chicago a little over a year, and then
moved to Oak Ridge in '43, and then continued there until 1946. |
| MELAMED: |
Can you generally characterize your responsibilities, what you did in this
whole period, as part of the MED? |
|
|
Inspection of Manhattan Project Facilities and
Proposed Sites |
| FRIEDELL: |
Until Warren actually came onto the scene, I was really under Dr. Stone's
direction. And I was pursuing activities that Dr. Stone determined were
appropriate, which were generally surveillance. I visited various activities
[(sites)]. I visited Harshaw Chemical,69 which was involved in the
process, and to see what hazards I could identify. I went to places near Boston
who were involved in these activities.
One of the things that I did that is of interest to you, is that in our
conferences we were discussing how indeed we would assign whatever we learned
about animals, to humans. Then we began to think, "Where are there any
places where there are any human studies that would be useful?" Then, of
course it occurred to me, it came like a flash, that Memorial Hospital [in New
York City] had a group of patients that had been treated with total-body
[irradiation], and there might be a source of information that could be used.
The idea of doing any work on humans was not seriously considered.
Because first of all, the problems of secrecy. We didn't want anybody to know
that we were working on radiation. Work on animals was secret, because we didn't
want anyone to be aware of this. As a matter of fact, publications in the
literature, once they came into our office, were stamped "secret."
Throughout the literature—it wasn't to be discovered by anybody that we
were looking at data in the literature. All of this, then, had to be handled in
a secret fashion. That was obvious. Secrecy probably made a big difference.
The other reason was that it was necessary to do some control: how were you
going to do it? The more we examined it, the more it seemed that we would
somehow learn to do some extrapolation from the data that we did [have] on
animals. There is something to be said here about this that I got from Norman
Hillberry, who was Dr. Arthur Compton's right-hand man, who was really his
executive officer. You'd probably get to see Dr. Compton if you wanted anything
done in the lab. Norm Hillberry would be the man to see. You probably know his
history. Later on, he left Chicago and went to Tucson at the University of
Arizona. It's not called University of Tucson. |
| FISHER: |
University of Arizona. |
| FRIEDELL: |
There isn't a University of Tucson—the University of Arizona. As a
matter of fact, when I was later-on looking at the history, he confided in me
something rather interesting that might be useful. It's an anecdote. I'm
quoting, really relaying it from what Dr. Hillberry said. He [(Hillberry)] said,
in a facetious way, he said that they were concerned about the pile70
that they were going to build and the enormous amount of radioactivity that
would be produced. |
| FISHER: |
At Hanford?71 |
| FRIEDELL: |
No, in their experimental piles [at the Met Lab, in Chicago], and their
other studies. They said, "Well, doctors don't know much about this stuff,
so we've got to get a good biophysicist." So they got a hold of Dr. Kenneth
Cole. Kenneth Cole is really the first individual who was assigned any
responsibility in this. Then he said, after reflection—they said, "What
will we do if something serious happens? We don't have anybody who has medical
credentials. So we better get somebody who has medical credentials." That's
when they contacted Dr. Stone, who came on as a consultant and who would visit
on-and-off.
Now it always puzzled me that Chicago [—which] was
going to be the seat of the plutonium project for a while—would not have
contacted their own Departments of Radiology. Perhaps they did. And it may be
that they suggested Dr. Stone. I don't know. But anyway, they were not involved
in any way, as far as I know. |
| FISHER: |
Maybe to maintain secrecy, perhaps? |
| FRIEDELL: |
Possibly to maintain secrecy. But Leon Jacobsen72 was involved
immediately because he was a hematologist. And, as you know, one of the ways we
use for monitoring was blood cell counts;73 which are obviously a
pretty crude way of doing it, but nevertheless was one of the ways that we used.
So, he became involved in the project. |
| FISHER: |
What was your understanding of the project when you were working that one
year at Chicago? |
| FRIEDELL: |
I don't know that. Because of secrecy, there was a considerable
compartmentalization. Often, we weren't told everything. But my understanding
was: that they were going to see whether they could build an experimental pile.
Then we knew that they needed a moderator.74 We learned a lot about
the nuclear science by the fact that they looked at moderators, and they decided
that carbon [(graphite)] was a very good one. And we used to see carbon blocks
around there and machining of carbon blocks. There was already some talk about— |
| MELAMED: |
(smiling) I could shut the door. |
| FRIEDELL: |
Did somebody open it? |
| FISHER: |
(smiling) We didn't ever close the door. |
| FRIEDELL: |
It's no secret. So we knew that they were going to do this. We were
discussing—we saw reports. I have them somewhere in my files, as you do.
You have everything I had, as a matter of fact, but you probably can't find
them.
(laughter)
You see, I have much smaller files. And so, the presidential
commission,75 when they came along, copied a lot of this stuff and
they have it.
In any event—so we got to know what the approach would be. I
seem to recall that they must have been studying this approach for a long time,
because I recall when I was in Chicago, that Du Pont76 was sending
its representatives regularly to visit various people at Chicago (which was
later called the Plutonium Project). We never called it the Plutonium Project.
We said, "the metal MED project," or whatever it was.
I do recall a weather expert who was looking at the possible kinds of
discharges from tall columns, under various conditions; which he called wind
roses. They must have already been looking at some kind of chemical plants in
Hanford. Of course, I didn't know the exact approach. After all, you didn't ask
too many questions; it wasn't your business. But I knew that some things were
going on. As I said, we learned a lot by osmosis. The fellow who was really the
original biophysicist was a fellow by the name of Ernest Wallen. He was the
first one who [was] a biophysicist interested in radiation hazard assessments
and surveillance, and so on—of course, the group [leader] later on.
Even before it really gelled, it seemed to me that they had already on the
drawing boards, had an approach to this. I can tell you that for some reason,
General Groves77 asked me to go to Hanford even before it was built—maybe
I've pointed it out in some of my collections of material— to review the
possible hazards that might occur if they had some kind of a nuclear pile there.
He didn't really go into any details. He just asked me whether, indeed, I could
identify any conditions that would prohibit any kind of operation at that time.
Actually, I went all over the place, walked over some of it, flew over most of
it, and reported back to him that I could not identify anything that was
unusual. My guess would be, simply looking back, that I must have done it very
early, because it would have been more appropriate for Stafford Warren to go
there than I. So it must have been before Stafford Warren came on the scene.
[Groves] also asked me to go to Oak Ridge, before it was built, partly to
examine whether there were medical facilities in Knoxville that could handle the
growth of, what were then called the Clinton Engineer Works. I had a chance to
survey these areas, long before they ever got well-developed. |
| FISHER: |
Was this while you were assigned to Chicago? |
| FRIEDELL: |
This was still while I was in Chicago. I'd never heard of the Clinton
Engineer Works, and I had never been to Knoxville. Obviously, if I were, the
only places I would have been would have been at Chicago and Oak Ridge. It was
when I was at Chicago. |
| FISHER: |
When you went to Hanford, was the site construction activity quite intense? |
| FRIEDELL: |
No, as far as I could make out, there were none. |
| FISHER: |
This was before construction, then? |
|
|
Search for Data on Human Exposure to Radiation |
| FRIEDELL: |
Before construction. They must have looked at this for a long time, because
they wouldn't suddenly send me off there. That's, as I surmise, the situation.
My then somewhat oblique analysis is: that they must have been planning this for
some time, with the Du Pont people coming there regularly, with my visiting
there. An expert on environment and wind shifts [was] doing studies there. We
got a chance to look at them. This must have been planned, even in the OSRD78
days before the Army took over.
One of the things that I did was, when we talked about human studies—and
that's something you want to learn about, as I recall—here was a
possibility to get some information. So I was instructed by Dr. Stone, and I got
privileges. I had to always find someone, since I wasn't the director and chief.
In order for me to travel anyplace, I had to receive orders.
I got orders to go there to Memorial Hospital. I didn't go to
Memorial Hospital alone. As I recall, I went to some of the places around
Boston, and then came back to the Memorial Hospital, and then spent several days
in New York; possibly visiting the headquarters there. But in any event, working
with the records. As I said, when I was looking over some of this data, I
suddenly discovered that I had a list of patients that I must have gotten from
the Memorial Hospital. I brought them along with me.
Incidentally, I
didn't fill this [oral history agreement form] out. I'm glad to fill it out, but
it requires some little decision making on your part. You have to tell me whom
I'm—the way this comes out. I'll sign it. |
| FISHER: |
We'll help you with it. |
| FRIEDELL: |
There's no question about this in any way, but [tell me] how exactly would
you like it filled out and I'll fill it out. But we can leave that for later. |
| MELAMED: |
No problem. |
| FISHER: |
We'll do that. We can't forget to do this. These are notebooks that you're
showing us now from that visit to— |
| FRIEDELL: |
Right. I don't know what this is, right there. |
| FISHER: |
That one says, "Beverly, Mass." |
| FRIEDELL: |
That's one of the places. I don't understand how I got this. This would be
secret. So this must have been enclosed in some "secret" envelope and
put away; and when it was declassified I got it back. What I want to show you is
this. You see. Here is the list. I must have gotten it. |
| FISHER: |
It's a list of people's names with dates. It would be from 75 to 225. |
| MELAMED: |
We're discussing the papers Dr. Friedell is showing Darrell. |
| FISHER: |
Then there are two numbers: maybe a first blood number, a second blood
number, and a time period. |
| FRIEDELL: |
Let me see what I think they are. |
| MELAMED: |
Dr. Friedell is examining the papers for us. |
| FRIEDELL: |
This is the period of treatment, I think. And these are the white counts:
10,000, 4,400, 50. This must be the rads that were delivered. |
| FISHER: |
Then the reduction in blood cell count. |
| FRIEDELL: |
Right. But the main point . . . Then there are these.79 These
are patients with solid tumors, I believe. Carcinoma of the tonsil, carcinoma of
the breast, endothelioma.80 These, I think, are [the] studies. Then,
later on, Dr. Stone made contact with Dr. Lloyd [F.] Craver, who had been my
immediate supervisor when I was at the Memorial Hospital.81 So I got
these from the records there, and I brought them back, and I gave them to Dr.
Stone, I believe. Then there was, at some appropriate time, I guess—they
put them in the records, or they decided not to pursue it any further. But in
effect, this was material that was being used for some kind of assessment of
what happened to patients, who had been exposed to whole-body radiation. So I
have these here, and I suppose they can be reproduced. |
| FISHER: |
I think they would be of interest. |
| MELAMED: |
Maybe we could copy them when we're done. |
| FRIEDELL: |
I think we can probably reproduce them here, and I'll get you a copy. |
| MELAMED: |
Thank you. |
| FRIEDELL: |
That is my—since you specifically asked about my experience—that
was my experience with regard to the Memorial Hospital data, as I recall. In my
discussion with Dr. Craver—I don't know how I did this—because
obviously, there was a matter of secrecy. That may be that Dr. Craver had
already been clear[ed]. However I did this, there was—I had access to the
data. And this may be the basis for whatever studies we were thinking about, in
regard to humans.
But what kind of human studies you could do wasn't clear. Obviously, you
couldn't do total-body radiation with normal subjects [as it was not medically
ethical]. That was out of the question. No such decision was really ever
seriously considered; partly because of the secrecy. If they had decided to do
it, they probably would have made a contract with somebody in a hospital
someplace, and they would have sent these patients over. Then again, to send a
normal patient over, no way it could be done. There was no question.
Then, all the studies were essentially directed towards doing animal
studies. These were done ad infinitum. In some ways, it was probably overdone,
probably a lot of redundancy. But it was a fairly new problem. They didn't quite
know how to handle this thing, and so a number of agencies were involved.
I should say something about the University of California and how I got to know
Dr. Hamilton better, and his group. First of all, I was a little astonished that
Dr. Lawrence hadn't been involved in the Manhattan Project. The reason was, that
he had worked with radioelements and [had been] learning about the metabolism
longer than anybody, probably. He was considered an authority in at least
therapeutic uses of this. It turned out later, I discovered that he had made a
commitment to the Air Force to study oxygen tensions at various altitudes. And
they needed radioactive materials, primarily. I think oxygen could be obtained.
So he was involved in that program, and made this commitment.
Then, what also was interesting in retrospect, and it seemed a
little odd at first, was that Dr. Hamilton made all his reports to the
University of Chicago; possibly because it was considered the plutonium project.
But nevertheless, all other groups like [the University of] Rochester, and so
on, always reported directly: made their own reports and submitted them
somewhere to the Manhattan Project someplace. It wasn't known as the Manhattan
Project, so it came to the Manhattan Corps of Engineers. And then, the reports
from the University of Chicago all then came to us, once it was organized.
It was always interesting that the reports came under the general [(General
Groves)]. First of all, it always identified Compton as the director, Stone as
the director of the biomedical studies, and then Dr. Hamilton as the director of
the studies which were being done on fission products.82 It was an
illogical, in a way, thing to do. And it was obviously the best place to do it
because they had the cyclotron working there. They would then go ahead and do
these studies. The reports were always made through Chicago, and then, in turn,
we would receive it. |
| FISHER: |
In Oak Ridge? |
| FRIEDELL: |
Oak Ridge. For a while, while I was in Chicago, I would receive it. |
| FISHER: |
Was Colonel Warren in Oak Ridge when you arrived? |
| FRIEDELL: |
Yes. He was not in Oak Ridge. But when it was decided that the headquarters
would be in Oak Ridge, we made plans to move, and he made plans to move from
Rochester to Oak Ridge. So we came simultaneously, and I was already visiting
with him and communicating with him. |
| FISHER: |
You mean the headquarters of the Manhattan Engineer District was moved from
New York to Oak Ridge? |
| FRIEDELL: |
It was moved from New York to Oak Ridge, correct.83 The new
director was Colonel Kenneth Nichols.84 |
| FISHER: |
Up in Chicago? |
| FRIEDELL: |
No, in Oak Ridge. |
| FISHER: |
The new Manhattan Engineer District's office. |
|
|
Purchase of a Cyclotron; the Manhattan Engineer
District's Early Biomedical Program |
| FRIEDELL: |
Obviously, all of the shots were really being called by General Groves from
Washington. Often, General Groves would call on me to do things. One of the
anecdotes is that—I have written it up—was that he asked me to go to
Boston to Harvard [University] to buy their cyclotron. The reason for asking me
to do it—and I was still at Chicago—the reason for asking me to do it
was: they wanted to camouflage the idea that the Army was buying a cyclotron—well,
that the Manhattan Engineer District was buying a cyclotron.
Ostensibly, the cyclotron—actually—the cyclotron was being
purchased for Los Alamos.85 We used the facade of my representing
the [Army's] Medical Corps, which wasn't true, and that I wanted it for medical
purposes. We were going to treat lots of leukemia, some polycythemias, and use
it for the usual medical reasons: iodine preparation for possible therapeutic
studies and iodine for diagnostic studies, and so on. I made this pitch as best
I could. I'm not sure that they really believed it. But nevertheless, we adhered
to it, and they finally agreed to it.
What isn't known—if you
look through the records, you'll find that Robert Wilson, who later became
director of the Fermi Lab [National Accelerator in Batavia, Illinois], had
written up this. But one of the things he didn't realize, didn't know, was that
[Harvard President] James [Bryant] Conant had written a letter, a handwritten
letter, to General Groves, saying, "We will transfer this to you for one
dollar," or something like that. The reason I know about it is that General
Groves asked me to come to Washington first. And then he explained to me what he
wanted done. In fact, he didn't explain it to me, he directed me. He gave me
this letter to read, which outlined what was going to happen. We were going to
get the cyclotron, no matter what. We wanted to purchase it.
He told
me, "When it comes to money, ignore that. Whatever they [(Harvard's
negotiators)] want, you agree to, because they're not going to get it, anyway."
Then they apparently had Robert Wilson, [in] the group was a finance officer, a
legal officer; Robert Wilson; and myself. I did most of the talking because I
was trying to convince them that this was going to the Medical Corps. I think—I've
forgotten the name of the chairman of the Department of Physics, who was a
well-known, towering individual in physics—he must have had an inkling of
what was going on, because some of his staff had already disappeared to Los
Alamos, Ken Bainbridge,86 for example—so he may have been aware
of this, but he didn't dare say anything. I think he wasn't the chairman; the
chairman was a professor of History or Administration. The names are there
someplace.
In any event, we finally agreed that it would be done.
Robert Wilson was an expert on [the] cyclotron, and he knew how to dismantle it
and put it together; and he was going on to Los Alamos anyway. I think they
shipped it to the medical depot to further obscure what was happening, and then
got it from there on. |
| MELAMED: |
It would seem from the story that General Groves was pretty closely
involved in the biomedical program. He kept a close eye on it and he oversaw it. |
| FRIEDELL: |
He was involved, because I'm sure that he had to make some decisions about
these various things. He was involved, as a matter of fact, in the fishery
study. The reason the fishery study, I think, was done at the University of
Washington [(Seattle)] (it was a logical place, anyway) was: I think that
General Groves had done some studies there, or may even have been a graduate of
the University of Washington, and then a program was created. I didn't really
know about it until it was full-fledged, because I think it was handled
primarily by Dr. Warren and General Groves. In any event, he was interested, and
he would often contact me or General Groves about various problems.
One
of the issues that I think we need to discuss—on your list there may be
some other things you wanted to ask about—is the studies that were done at—the
human studies with plutonium. We ought to get into that at the appropriate time.
Are there any other? |
| FISHER: |
Just leading in to that. Can you briefly describe Colonel [Stafford]
Warren, his personality, and your relationship with him? |
| FRIEDELL: |
Colonel Warren was, I think, a very easily approachable man. People liked
him. He was very likable. He was very enthusiastic. I would say that he was very
interested in research, and had a lot of contact with research. As a matter of
fact, I discovered later that one of the reasons they considered him very
seriously, was that he had contracts with the Office of [Scientific] Research
and Development. I discovered from a member of the staff here, who had one Jack
Coy, who was on the staff of the OSRD, who recalls that his contracts with the
University of Rochester for Stafford [Warren] were abruptly canceled. Then he
didn't know why, but afterwards, he discovered that [(Warren's appointment to
Oak Ridge)] was the reason.
He was a very affable sort of person.
People liked him. He delegated responsibility easily. I think he got along very
well; people liked him. I think, though, that I wouldn't have said he was a
superior scientist. I thought that some of the physicists, for example, were
more rigorous in their approaches to scientific problems. But he was pretty
good. He was interested. I would say he wasn't quite at their level. He would
often turn to me with problems. The truth of the matter is that I knew more
about radioactivity than he did at the time, because I had been involved in it
at great extent. He leaned on me very extensively and gave me many opportunities
to pursue my own approaches. As in the Army, I always did it under his
authority. |
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